Author Topic: Can't decide on CPU / LGA2011-V3 / people who actually know this should answer.  (Read 15097 times)

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Offline Nils Piirma

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Hey Guys.

I'm a server hardware engineer but I'm having trouble on what to buy for my rendering machine.
Since I'm planning on Haswell-E LGA 2011 machine I need to know on what is Keyshot using the most:
1. Is it the Core count?
2. Is it the Clock speed?
3. Is it the combination of the 2 above?
4. Is there a L3 cache difference on what to choose?

I'm running around between LGA2011 Intel Xeon 2620V3 x2  OR   2630V3 x2
Since it's going to be a dualsocket machine, and the budget to spend on the CPU + Motherboard + RAM is around 2500 USD
RAM: 64GB of 2133MHZ ECC memory
Motherboard: Supermicro X10DAi

The previous X9 family and V2 series or motherboard and cpu have been under my test many times. I'm just trying to find the Goldylocks zone with this next build.

I'm appriciating a direct and a 100% asnwer as direct as possible Why and What should be better.
Since none of these are consumer grade products I'd be happy to not get answers from people who have no Hand's on Experience with this product line, save yourselves from it.

If there could be a Keyshot algorithm engineer here who would tell me the direct answer  I'd appreciate it:)

Thanks guys.

Nils
Server Hardware Engineer

« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 11:31:41 pm by nilspiirma3d »

Offline TpwUK

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Hi Nils,

I just built a new dual 2011-v2 here because I could not afford the v3 and I would be very surprised if you could make a Goldilocks system on the budget you propose. The RAM prices here in the UK made it a no go build here. Dries here on the forum offers some great advice regarding builds and he will probably come in on this thread when he gets chance :)

Since keyshot uses cores the more you have the better the performance, and as such, the higher the CPU speed the better too. So to answer that question posed, option 3 is is where you need be looking. But after saying that Lvl 3 cache could well play a part but I am pretty sure the lvl3 cache is more towards moving large chunks of data around so might help with the speed of loading and saving files rather than render speed.

I am using a SuperMicro X9DEA-7 here with dual E52620v2's on board. Windows platform loves it. Other OS's not so much.

The equation I used for working out what to purchase to get the best bang for what i had to spend was:

My old machine was i7 4790k 3.4Ghz with 8 threads total. I rounded down the Ghz just to keep it simple for head calculations, so it became 8 x 3 = 24Gz total, this system on the camera benchmark used to score 52fps.

New build on the same RAM but with 24 threads @ 2.1Ghz = 48Ghz total giving 96-97fps on the same benchmark file. So even though you don't (or at least i don't) get twice the performance in relation to twice the GHz it is pretty darn close.

So run the benchmark on your current system and work it out what's best for your budget. There is a huge expenditure requirement for 2630 here in the UK - I could get both 2620's for the price of one 2630 so as someone who can no longer get work for the foreseeable future I had to take the route of justifying the expense. If you have a steady income and if you do rendering and 3D modelling as a living then things will be different for you.

Hope this helps you a little Nils

Martin
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 12:10:03 am by TpwUK »

Offline Nils Piirma

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Thanks Martin.

I was more considering a MAX core and MAX GHZ for the CPU and perhaps going with a single one rather than a dual cpu system.
I was thinking more in the real of E5-1650 at first due to the turbo frequency and core count.
But I'm now thinking of getting a dual 2620v3 system, but then, in expense of 4 extra cores for the 1650 i'm still runing lower clock speed on the dual cpu setup. I have been on Xeon's (5504 old xeon, and V2 2603) and also on the 4770K. Atleast when i tried each one of these as a full cluster setup I could immediately see the 4770K pull ahead of the Xeons due to the core clock, but since it being a consumer grade thing and more orientated towards the consumer market it's starting to lose it's point for reliability and also effectiveness over time.

The other thought I had was the i7 5960X but yet again, it's a slight more faster in terms of the clock speed but still compared to dual xeron's it's lacking the core count. So here's the delirium of choosing it. Either up to 3,8GHZ on turbo with 8 cores and 16 threads, or 3.2GHZ turbo with 12 cores and 24 threads.

More seems better, but on either side, they both have their pro's and con's.

It's a hard decision to make when you have a budget this big / small but I can't emphesize this enough to say that XEON's will in overall prove to be superior when it comes to High calculations, it's just finding the perfect one to go for.

Offline TpwUK

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It's the final leap that's the real dilemma ...

The X10DAi should be a great board that would be wasted on a single 1650, the one denotes it can only be in operation as a solo cpu. So if you have not purchased that board yet and are wanting single cpu performance then you may pull a couple of hundred bucks back for a better chip/ram on a single cpu board.

But chip comparisons would be ...

E5-1650-v3 = 12 threads @ 3,5GHz = 54Gz total processing speed @ £558
E5-2620-v3 = 12 threads @ 2.4Ghz x 2 = 57.6Ghz total processing speed @ £1000
i7-5960 = 16 threads total @ 3Ghz = 48Ghz total processing speed @ £880

Using these figures i would go with the 1650 and save on the motherboard, you can then go good quality single cpu workstation grade ASUS or whichever and have a healthy cash fund left to spend on high speed RAM.

Any better ?

Martin

Offline Nils Piirma

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We actually went with the 2630 V3 and 64 giggs of ECC DDR4 2133mhz on quad channels.
Everything else remains the same under those 2 things.
And since the Xeon's won't get so hot with even Air cooling and TDP being only 90W instead 130W then it's a perfect combination.
But Martin, also thanks for clarifying it. :)

This systems is actually not mine so I lied here a little bit :D

This is actually going to go to Spain, Huelva, and we know who lives there :D Guillermo Abalos Ventoso :D

Arsito Dynamics needs a new render engine and we're the ones to provide it.
I will personally build it under Network Tomorrow INC.
www.tomorrow.ee

Offline TpwUK

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Hi Nils, if you went dual E5-2630-v3 then you get 76.8Ghz @ £1200 so indeed this is a much better deal compared to 2620 or 5960. Well worth the extra £200

Martin

Offline DriesV

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Great choice!
E5-2630 v3 is probably the sweet spot in price vs. performance in the E5-2600 v3 product line. 8 cores in the 'lower end' segment is awesome! :)
(It was the CPU I advised to Martin some time ago...)

A dual 2630 v3 is +10% faster than my own dual 2680 v1. A very good deal indeed.

Dries
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 08:03:37 am by DriesV »

Offline elles

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Timely I came across this topic. Most helpful. I am planning to upgrade this month to Xeon E5 machine but still have some questions about components and suppliers. Because I am in SE Asia most of the parts list must be bought online from abroad so I best get it right at ordering. I would appreciate some advice about the following.

1)  Will the Supermicro X10DAI or X10DAX fit into a standard E-ATX case? I read elsewhere the X10 MB mount points are non-standard - not sure if this is true. I am considering the Corsair Air 540 as its available locally.
2)  Is it worth buying the x10DAX - the overclock model? I am under the impression you cannot OC Xeons anyway so I whats the reason for this MB?
3)  I have followed this guide and will buy the E5-2630 v3 as well. I am thinking about using liquid Corsair 100i as coolers or is this overkill - its a dual fan radiator per CPU. Will a smaller unit do the job?
4)  Online suppliers. I am struggling to find online suppliers who handle international orders for server gear (MB, Xeons etc) and paypal payments. I have used B&H Photo before but they don't stock the Xeon V3 series. Does anyone know of a reputable and reliable international supplier?

I really appreciate some help about the above. Cheers.


Offline TpwUK

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Hi Elles, hopefully i can help you a little here ...

Quote
1)  Will the Supermicro X10DAI or X10DAX fit into a standard E-ATX case? I read elsewhere the X10 MB mount points are non-standard - not sure if this is true. I am considering the Corsair Air 540 as its available locally.

Simple answer here is Yes and No, yes it will fit, but in many cases there is a miss match with mountings, easily solved by drilling the extra holes required - Here I had two mountings that had no corresponding holes in the computer case

Quote
2)  Is it worth buying the x10DAX - the overclock model? I am under the impression you cannot OC Xeons anyway so I whats the reason for this MB?

I am thinking this is more to do with the automatic switching from normal to turbo modes on the cpu's. I ran a benchmark test app on my computer and it got the cpus to go to 2.4GHz instead of 2.1, my motherboard is a different model from your proposed one and mine does not support manual over-clocking at all and is extremely sensitive to changes. It does support Load Balancing though.

Quote
3)  I have followed this guide and will buy the E5-2630 v3 as well. I am thinking about using liquid Corsair 100i as coolers or is this overkill - its a dual fan radiator per CPU. Will a smaller unit do the job?

Most workstation cases come with adequate large fans in the case and dual cpu boards don't tend to be used as a games box where the cpu's will be fully maxed out for long periods of time. If you are wanting to play games and over-clock things, then a single cpu and liquid cooling is a better option. If not, then i suggest buying a case that can support liquid cooling, build it without the liquid cooling and see how it goes. If you get over-heating issues, then add liquid cooling.

Quote
4)  Online suppliers. I am struggling to find online suppliers who handle international orders for server gear (MB, Xeons etc) and paypal payments. I have used B&H Photo before but they don't stock the Xeon V3 series. Does anyone know of a reputable and reliable international supplier?

I'd say www.amazon.com As long as you are not in a country that has technology embargoes applied to it, you should be fine. It would be even better if you can get all the parts from one supplier and save a few pennies on postage fees.

Hope this helps, all the best

Martin
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:06:55 am by TpwUK »

Offline Nils Piirma

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Timely I came across this topic. Most helpful. I am planning to upgrade this month to Xeon E5 machine but still have some questions about components and suppliers. Because I am in SE Asia most of the parts list must be bought online from abroad so I best get it right at ordering. I would appreciate some advice about the following.

1)  Will the Supermicro X10DAI or X10DAX fit into a standard E-ATX case? I read elsewhere the X10 MB mount points are non-standard - not sure if this is true. I am considering the Corsair Air 540 as its available locally.
2)  Is it worth buying the x10DAX - the overclock model? I am under the impression you cannot OC Xeons anyway so I whats the reason for this MB?
3)  I have followed this guide and will buy the E5-2630 v3 as well. I am thinking about using liquid Corsair 100i as coolers or is this overkill - its a dual fan radiator per CPU. Will a smaller unit do the job?
4)  Online suppliers. I am struggling to find online suppliers who handle international orders for server gear (MB, Xeons etc) and paypal payments. I have used B&H Photo before but they don't stock the Xeon V3 series. Does anyone know of a reputable and reliable international supplier?

I really appreciate some help about the above. Cheers.


Hey, Elles.

Since we also in our company do internation shipping we could actually help you out witht his supermicro system build thing, but we don't like to put other manufacturer's stuff inside our systems. Since this is a systems that i'm also building ofr a client that we all know: Guillermo Abalos Ventoso AKA MILLERGO, we had to build a full system that's air cooled and it's also quiet.

If you want to know more on how to get this system organized for you too, then give me an email @    nils@tomorrow.ee
Our company Network Tomorrow INC specializes in this kind of build and / server / workstation grade stuff based upon only SUPERMiCRO parts, then i'd suggest contacting me in person via email.

As far as payments go, i'm going to have to say that paypal won't do for out company, but from person to person, i think we can manage and I can pay for my company and get it to you (altho i only ship via DHL or UPS)

kind regards: Nils Piirma / Network Tomorrow / hardware engineer, keyshot render farm developer.

Offline elles

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kind regards: Nils Piirma / Network Tomorrow / hardware engineer, keyshot render farm developer.


Hope this helps, all the best

Martin

Hi Martin & Nils

Thank you so much for replying. I ordered most of the parts before reading your responses - time zone and silly me. Some Ebay, some local and some from far and abroad. I guess if one parts goes astray in shipping not all is lost :) Amazon, while convenient, charges exorbitant freight import & handling fees on your behalf for customs bin SE Asia far and above standard import tax rates - often adding 30% plus to the cost.

Anyway I went with the X10DAX MB as the cost increase was minor - probably not worth the added expense though. I also ordered two Corsair x100i - just hope the fans are not too noisy.

I haven't ordered the memory. Supermicro lists preferred/certified memory as Hynix/Samsung/Micron. A HK supplier, whom I've purchased from before, offered 'Super Talent DDR4-2133 16GB/1Gx4 ECC/REG CL15 Micron Chip Server Memory'. The same Mfr Part Number is on Amazon. I haven't heard of Super Talent but their websites lists themselves as partners to Supermicro so I assume its a reputable manufacturer. But the Mfr Part Number being advertised is not listed (or I couldn't find it) on Super Talents website. Can I install only 1x Dimm per CPU socket to try this product, before ordering more? The description is:

  Mfr Part Number: F21RB16G4M
  Type: DDR4
  Capacity: 16 GB
  Speed: PC4-17000 2133MHz
  Size & Bit: 1G x 4
  Pins: 288pin
  ECC: Yes
  Registered: Yes
  Chip: Micron
  Dual Rank x4
  CL 15, 1.2V

I am holding back on the Dimm purchase until I am satisfied this product is okay. Any thoughts?  Alternatively I will source Samsung or Crucial.

This box is a rushed purchase to replace a dying general workstation. But in the future I will most certainly contact you Nils. I noted your details on file. I will most certainly email you in the new year. I noticed your in Tallin - I was there in 1991.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 05:45:46 pm by elles »

Offline Mike24

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Hi,

does E5-2630 v3 really support DDR4-2133MHZ or only DDR4-1866? ???

I'm asking because of this Intel spec page: http://ark.intel.com/de/products/83356/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2630-v3-20M-Cache-2_40-GHz

Offline Eron

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According to the official Intel specs, it is only  DDR4 - 1866:

http://ark.intel.com/products/83356/

best wishes
- Eron -

Offline Mike24

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According to the official Intel specs, it is only  DDR4 - 1866:

http://ark.intel.com/products/83356/

best wishes
- Eron -

And what happens if you use DDR4-2133MHZ? Does it run on 1866MHZ?

Offline Nils Piirma

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According to the official Intel specs, it is only  DDR4 - 1866:

http://ark.intel.com/products/83356/

best wishes
- Eron -

And what happens if you use DDR4-2133MHZ? Does it run on 1866MHZ?

2133 will downclock to 1866