Author Topic: [RESOLVED] Invisible Surfaces?  (Read 386 times)

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Offline Power971

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[RESOLVED] Invisible Surfaces?
« on: November 16, 2019, 03:42:06 pm »
Hi everybody, hope you're having a great day.
I Run Keyshot 8.1.58 with Rhinoceros 5.0 models.

This :


Lemme describe : here there should be a surface. It is clearly visible inside Rhino and is correctly assigned to the right object. I already tried to save modified copies of it but nothing changes. I'll add that this occurs to the same surface on the other symmetrical side of the model.

Such thing has occured pretty often to me, with all Keyshot versions since 5. I usually deal with it by sending my 3dm file to a friend, saving it from his own computer then sending it back to me. But here I can't do the same due to the weight of this model.
Have you ever heard of this problem?

Thanks a lot for your help!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 07:09:50 am by Power971 »

Offline phos4

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 01:50:03 am »
The first image is not visible, so its hard to compare or see the issue you are having.
In general, do you have in Rhino the mesh settings on custom and density on 1?

Sometimes it also helps to open another instance of Rhino and copy paste the surface with issues back and forth into your origianl rhino file, somehow I have the feeling it "cleans" up some data while doing so.

Also sometimes KS has issues with single surfaces from Rhino. If you have the chance, close the surface thats causing troubles.

I know it is not ideal for the workflow, but you could also try and export (.3dm or .step) this one surface extra and import (add to your scene) it into KS.

Offline KeyShot

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 05:08:43 pm »
If you can share the file with us then we would be happy to take a look.

Offline Power971

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 07:51:40 pm »
The first image is not visible, so its hard to compare or see the issue you are having.
In general, do you have in Rhino the mesh settings on custom and density on 1?

Sometimes it also helps to open another instance of Rhino and copy paste the surface with issues back and forth into your origianl rhino file, somehow I have the feeling it "cleans" up some data while doing so.

Also sometimes KS has issues with single surfaces from Rhino. If you have the chance, close the surface thats causing troubles.

I know it is not ideal for the workflow, but you could also try and export (.3dm or .step) this one surface extra and import (add to your scene) it into KS.

Thank you for your reply, I will try that!
And there is no more image to compare, this is just a hollow insertion I put by error. But you could compare with this one :
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 07:56:10 pm by Power971 »

Offline Power971

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 08:01:56 pm »
If you can share the file with us then we would be happy to take a look.

I would like to but the file is 240 MB fat and my internet connexion is BAAAAAAD these days.

Offline phos4

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 11:56:17 pm »
yeah, the edges around that surface don't look like the surfaces are joined properly to the surrounding surfaces.
First try this: 
https://imgur.com/a/01TKEca 
Then save your scene and then export/update it to KS. 

If that does not work, see if you have naked edges around that surface and close these.
To do this, select the surface and type this in the command line: _ShowEdges
If there are any, they will be highlighted in pink.
Type _JoinEdge in the command line and select the edges to join them.

If that does not work, you could export only the triangular surface and the surface around it, that should be fine to upload here. We won't need the complete model, just the parts that you are having problems with. 

These are all quick fixes, your surfaces in that special area don't look very refined and if you want to avoid problems with your model in the future it would be best to rework that area and make the surface transitions smoother.

_____
I would have attached the image in the post, but somehow it did not work for me using the attach command here.


« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 11:58:22 pm by phos4 »

Offline Power971

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2019, 05:23:56 pm »
yeah, the edges around that surface don't look like the surfaces are joined properly to the surrounding surfaces.
First try this: 
https://imgur.com/a/01TKEca 
Then save your scene and then export/update it to KS. 

If that does not work, see if you have naked edges around that surface and close these.
To do this, select the surface and type this in the command line: _ShowEdges
If there are any, they will be highlighted in pink.
Type _JoinEdge in the command line and select the edges to join them.

If that does not work, you could export only the triangular surface and the surface around it, that should be fine to upload here. We won't need the complete model, just the parts that you are having problems with. 

These are all quick fixes, your surfaces in that special area don't look very refined and if you want to avoid problems with your model in the future it would be best to rework that area and make the surface transitions smoother.

_____
I would have attached the image in the post, but somehow it did not work for me using the attach command here.

WOW, that's some complete advise, you're a master.
Though I wonder why I should work the surfaces junction since they are separate objects. I'll try this though.

Offline phos4

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 12:13:30 am »
Since you are having problems with that surface you could try the tips above first and see if they help you.
They will take you between 10 seconds and 2 minutes per tip, importing the updated surfaces to KS and see if the surface show up now.

Quote
Though I wonder why I should work the surfaces junction since they are separate objects.
 
The question is, do you WANT them to be separate? Or are they separate and you WANT them together/joined?
Both ways have different implications regarding the surface treatment (see tips above) to be shown in KS corectly.


 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 12:15:27 am by phos4 »

Offline Power971

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2019, 04:10:21 pm »
yeah, the edges around that surface don't look like the surfaces are joined properly to the surrounding surfaces.
First try this: 
https://imgur.com/a/01TKEca 
Then save your scene and then export/update it to KS. 

If that does not work, see if you have naked edges around that surface and close these.
To do this, select the surface and type this in the command line: _ShowEdges
If there are any, they will be highlighted in pink.
Type _JoinEdge in the command line and select the edges to join them.

If that does not work, you could export only the triangular surface and the surface around it, that should be fine to upload here. We won't need the complete model, just the parts that you are having problems with. 

These are all quick fixes, your surfaces in that special area don't look very refined and if you want to avoid problems with your model in the future it would be best to rework that area and make the surface transitions smoother.

_____
I would have attached the image in the post, but somehow it did not work for me using the attach command here.

I tried to export the problem surfaces into a new model and the result is unsetting. The objects appears in the KS scene list but nothing is visible in the view, even via selection.

Offline phos4

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 11:40:41 pm »
It would help if you could be a bit more descriptive in the steps you have taken so far. From your reply we don't know if you tried everything stated above or just tried the export tip. Note that just exporting the surface in another format might still need the mesh density setting to be put on 1 before exporting for it to work properly.

Offline sloanelliot

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2019, 08:49:22 am »
Doubting this is the case here, but could it be an issue with normals? I don't use Rhino, but I've had something similar happen between Maya and Keyshot and the easiest fix was to use Keyshot's geometry editor to recalculate normals. In KS 8, you'd go to Edit > Edit Geometry > Edit Normals (and select the exact object in the tree you're trying to correct) ... Click "Calculate Vertex Normals" and then hit Apply. SOMETIMES that's a handy fix, not always haha.. Maybe it'll help.

Offline Power971

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Re: Invisible Surfaces?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2019, 02:39:23 pm »
Doubting this is the case here, but could it be an issue with normals? I don't use Rhino, but I've had something similar happen between Maya and Keyshot and the easiest fix was to use Keyshot's geometry editor to recalculate normals. In KS 8, you'd go to Edit > Edit Geometry > Edit Normals (and select the exact object in the tree you're trying to correct) ... Click "Calculate Vertex Normals" and then hit Apply. SOMETIMES that's a handy fix, not always haha.. Maybe it'll help.

Thank you for your answer!
But the problem seems to be fixed a mysterous way. When I opened the problem file ALONE in keyshot and then imported my full model, The surfaces appeared correcly on it.

I thank you all for the time you've given me!