Author Topic: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping  (Read 388 times)

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Offline zooropa

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Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« on: April 15, 2019, 08:41:42 am »
Hi, I have some doubts regarding a scene I am making.


1. Are the render settings in the project tab related to the final render or these tweaks are specifically related to the viewport render.

2. If you check I still have some strange marks in the center of the render, I am not sure if this is a moare effect or I need to keep cranking up the ray bounces (40 at this moment). Are also GI bounces important for this type of render ?


3. Shouldn't the shadows be also a projection of the grid instead of a big dark area? Maybe increasing shadow quality ? Or this has more to do with adding a small ping with big intensity?

4. If I separate the backdrop ramp and the grid surfaces with render layers...will KS handle the accuracy ? Meaning Will i get a Photoshop layered and precise masks or I am pushing too much with this model.


Of course I could find this by experimenting and testing. Unfortunately I have a laptop and this scene is less than 1 FPS meaning that I need several hours to see a decent outcome. I am trying to save some times by recurring  to the community insights.

Thanks a lot
 


Offline DMerz III

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 10:07:43 am »
 :) whew that's a challenging piece of geometry.

I don't have a complete answer for you, but maybe some tips.

Ray bounces are probably more useful if the material is transparent and refractive. In this case, it looks like you have a plastic or diffuse material so your GI bounces being upped might be more beneficial. I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

The moire pattern could just be a moire effect with having so many overlapping layers like that, not entirely sure you're going to get a clean result by simply changing the render settings, I could be wrong. My first thought would be to try adding a motion blur effect to the whole thing and render that as a separate pass (very slight movement). Then in post brush in the areas in the middle, and leave the original image near the edges where you want those hard lines to be apparent.

Also, your lighting is fairly "large and soft" judging by the ground shadow. Using a smaller and brighter intensity light will give you more hard shadows. That being said, the distance between each layer and the bouncing of light is still going to diffuse your shadow quite a bit.

This is a tough challenge! But I am eager to see how you progress through it!

Edit;

Also... are you using product or interior mode for this render? Try interior?
Sorry the laptop is slow, that def makes "trying" things out a bit harder.


« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 10:09:41 am by DMerz III »

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 01:20:29 pm »
:) whew that's a challenging piece of geometry.

I don't have a complete answer for you, but maybe some tips.

Ray bounces are probably more useful if the material is transparent and refractive. In this case, it looks like you have a plastic or diffuse material so your GI bounces being upped might be more beneficial. I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

The moire pattern could just be a moire effect with having so many overlapping layers like that, not entirely sure you're going to get a clean result by simply changing the render settings, I could be wrong. My first thought would be to try adding a motion blur effect to the whole thing and render that as a separate pass (very slight movement). Then in post brush in the areas in the middle, and leave the original image near the edges where you want those hard lines to be apparent.

Also, your lighting is fairly "large and soft" judging by the ground shadow. Using a smaller and brighter intensity light will give you more hard shadows. That being said, the distance between each layer and the bouncing of light is still going to diffuse your shadow quite a bit.

This is a tough challenge! But I am eager to see how you progress through it!

Edit;

Also... are you using product or interior mode for this render? Try interior?
Sorry the laptop is slow, that def makes "trying" things out a bit harder.

Thanks so much,
Ray B at 80:


Cranking GI did not change much and did not help to make the darkess disappear:



GI and Ray B at 50 both:



I will keep you updated if something comes to my mind , I can send you the scene if you are interested :)
Its an experiment with Grasshopper.

Offline DMerz III

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 07:24:09 pm »
 :) thanks for trying it out looks like those extra bounces won't matter much, which might be a good thing since they would only increase your render time.

Did you try interior vs product mode at all?
Also, are you using Max Samples Engine or the Custom Control? (You won't be able to do custom control with Interior). I am curious what happens when you bump up the anti-aliasing in custom control.

If you want to share the geometry or scene with me, that'd be cool, I can play around when I get some free time (although no promises as to when that would be, LOL).

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 02:45:37 am »
Hi DMerz III, All of the tryouts are based on the viewport render and the project tab tweaking.  I am wondering if I would achieve a different result if I go to the render dialog?

Would you send me an email where I can send the scene ?

I can try to boost the anti alias. If I use the max sample option and besides the samples what is driving my Ray Bounces since I only have samples within that option ?

Offline Esben Oxholm

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 03:33:25 am »
My best guess is that it is a naturally occurring moiré effect.
If you take a fine mesh (like a mosquito cover or something like that) in real life and layered it, you'll get the same result.

I don't think there's a way to get rid of that in this specific case. It's just the way it looks and not a case of to few samples, AA, smoothing or whatever :)

With that said, I could be wrong, but it's my best guess.

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 03:41:47 am »
My best guess is that it is a naturally occurring moiré effect.
If you take a fine mesh (like a mosquito cover or something like that) in real life and layered it, you'll get the same result.

I don't think there's a way to get rid of that in this specific case. It's just the way it looks and not a case of to few samples, AA, smoothing or whatever :)

With that said, I could be wrong, but it's my best guess.

Thanks Esben! I feel little bit more at ease if this is "optics" and not my lack of Keyshot. I can say that cranking up the Ray Bounces its helping a lot. I am wondering how to choose the amount of  Ray Bounces when using the per sample render dialog...maybe i need to jump to the advance tab ?

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 05:33:27 am »
My computer crashed when using the advance panel within the render dialog. I decided to go for a max sample option and hope it takes the settings from my project tab at the viewport render. I will post the result in 400 days when my laptop explodes.
Thanks both for you insights :)

Offline TGS808

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 11:53:04 am »
I will post the result in 400 days when my laptop explodes.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 12:42:49 am »
Find attached 750 samples. I am happy with the result, still do not understand if the ray bounces and GI has been driven by the viewport project settings ?

Thanks !

Offline Esben Oxholm

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 12:50:48 am »
still do not understand if the ray bounces and GI has been driven by the viewport project settings ?

To the best of my knowledge, if you use maximum samples rendering mode, the ray bounce and GI settings in the lighting tab is being used.

Offline zooropa

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 01:49:46 am »
It makes sense cause the outcome doesnt show the dark patch...and in order to avoid the dark patch the RB need to be quite high .

Thanks Esben.

Offline DMerz III

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Re: Render Settings for multiple surfaces visually overlapping
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 09:16:43 am »
Hey Zooropa, I'll send you a PM for my email.