Author Topic: KS7: Losing models / corrupted hierarchy when duplicate and group/ungroup  (Read 831 times)

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Offline sethcshort

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Keyshot 7.1.51 (also KS 6.3.23)
Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD
Windows 7

I'm having trouble with KS7 and duplicating and re-ordering or re-grouping objects. When I duplicate objects in one group, then move them to another group (or to the root of the scene in the hierarchy), I'm seeing lost objects, invisible objects with messed up pivot points, objects that are in one group but move when a different group is moved.

What I do (in KS6):
1. Import a BIP with a group of screw models. The screws are various lengths, all aligned, so I can put the whole stack into place.
2. Select one of the models in the group (the screw that's the length needed for that placement), and right-click -> Duplicate.
3. Select the duplicate object (usually it creates a new group and places two models inside it), and drag it elsewhere in the hierarchy. Typically I drag it to the "Models" line to drop it into the root of the scene.
4. Select the group of screws and position it to the next placement, repeat.
5. I end up with a set of duplicate screws all in the proper place and proper length. Then I hide the original group of screws (eventually delete to reduce file size).

What happens in KS7:
Everything seems fine up until step 4. When I move the group of screws after placing/duplicating/reorganizing the duplicate, it moves all the screws EXCEPT the original one that I duplicated. So there's a model that's in the group in the hierarchy, and when I select the group, all the other models are selected but this one isn't. If I drag the duplicate back into the screw group, I'm then able to move all the screws (including both duplicates).

I tried to get around this by dragging the duplicate into the root "Models" line of the hierarchy, instead of into another group. It seemed to work until I realized that the duplicate screws that were outside the group were being moved along with the group -- although if I select the duplicated model, an outline appears where it's supposed to be, but the object's not there.

I tried duplicating one of the grouped screws again, and snapping it to the position of the invisible screw, but it flew way off camera to the side. When I selected the invisible screw, its pivot suddenly appeared way on the other side of the scene.

I have two questions:

1. What can I do to avoid this?
2. Is there a better technique to do what I'm trying to do?

Thanks,
Seth
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 05:58:16 pm by sethcshort »

Offline Will Gibbons

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Re: KS7: Losing models / corrupted hierarchy when duplicate and group/ungroup
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 08:59:50 am »
1. What can I do to avoid this?
2. Is there a better technique to do what I'm trying to do?
Thanks,
Seth

1. Don't re-order or duplicate geometry in the Scene Tree. Seriously. I had the issues you described when I did this. It is not supported behavior in KeyShot as it can cause unwanted issues.
2. Absolutely.
- Solution 1. Set your file/scene up correctly in CAD if you're modeling your parts.
- Solution 2. Open each part in its own KeyShot session, add materials and save it as a .bip and import it into the new file as many times as needed (kitbash method)
- Solution 3. Use the pattern tool rather than just duplicating. Use naming in scene tree to 'group' and then filter/search by name instead of grouping.
- Solution 4. Use Model Sets. This is why this feature was created. It'll duplicate and create collections of geometry properly without causing Scene Tree issues.

It all comes down to what you need to do with your file and the complexity of your scene.

Offline sethcshort

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Re: KS7: Losing models / corrupted hierarchy when duplicate and group/ungroup
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 10:28:03 am »
From the KS7 Manual:

Quote
Regrouping Parts
Copy Page Tree
Feb 14, 2017

Regrouping gives you the ability to organize the scene tree. Adding a group is done by right-clicking on the top level and selecting Add to Group or Add Sub-Group. Parts and sub-assemblies can be dragged and dropped into new groups in the Scene Tree.

Important: Reordering parts and sub-assemblies will disable LiveLinking and Update Geometry.

Quote
Duplicating Models
Copy Page Tree
Feb 14, 2017

Models and parts can be duplicated by right clicking on them in the scene tree and selecting ‘Duplicate’. This action duplicates the model along with any assigned materials and animations.

It seems to me that grouping and duplicating IS supported behavior. It's not exactly experimental. And it worked okay in KS6. The errors I'm seeing are new in KS7.



Offline Will Gibbons

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Re: KS7: Losing models / corrupted hierarchy when duplicate and group/ungroup
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 06:34:05 am »
I'm well aware you're able to. I'm offering solutions that will avoid what you're experiencing.