Author Topic: Beer bottle help  (Read 14167 times)

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Offline Xidor

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Beer bottle help
« on: March 27, 2011, 02:48:10 pm »
Hi guys,

I'm doing an image for a project where I wanted to show a beer bottle. The image below is my first attempt at doing glass with a liquid inside with Keyshot. In the past, with another rendering program, I was able to achieve a pretty good effect of seeing through the glass and the liquid.

In this case, I'm struggling. I used the tinted glass and changed the color to a brownish tint. And for the liquid, I used the Beer option. I tried other glass too. Solid, two sided. I even used materials from the old Hypershot library.

While what I did is passable for what I need, I'd be happier if I could get some more transparency in the liquid. If I turn off the bottle, the liquid renders great! But it needs a container of course.  :D

It seems the glass is making the liquid turn dark. If I use clear glass, the liquid turns white, even though I'm using the Beer material for the liquid.

I'd also like to learn how you guys do the condensation on the surface of the glass. That would add that one thing to the image to hit the spot.

Thanks for any advice!


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Offline Robert V.

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 02:56:34 pm »
Hi Nelson,

Nice beer bottle model you have there!

You need to render with more ray bounces. looks like you rendered with 1 or 2....

Offline Xidor

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 05:14:03 pm »
Thanks Predator.

I tried upping the Ray bouncing as you suggested, it was set to the default setting of 6 or so. It did give me some more small little reflections inside, but not what I was hoping for.


Offline Robert V.

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 12:53:47 am »
did you enable "detailed indirect illumination" ? (under realtime tab) (the realtime tab has effect on the normal render process)

And please do render with the normal render and not with the "real-time render" (disable that box under "Render">"render options")

if you cannot get it to work, send your beer bottle model to me, and I will set it up for you.

Offline Xidor

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 11:10:37 pm »
Thanks for the offer of help Predator.

I actually did start to play with the Realtime tab. That and some other adjustments got some pretty good results. I'll try to post an image this weekend.

I never really understood the Realtime tab. Perhaps I can find a webinar video on it. I thought it had more to do when the renders are rezzing up "Realtime" as you are setting up the scene and applying materials and adjusting the view before you actually do the render.

Offline jhiker

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 12:58:47 am »
Looking at the neck of the bottle, it looks like the liquid reaches the outside of the glass bottle - almost like the glass has no thickness, if you know what I mean.
Best of luck - show us the finished article!

Offline Robert V.

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 01:06:54 am »
@Jhiker:

It indeed looks very thin, but keyshot has the unfortunate problem that if you have 2 transparent materials "touching" each other (in this case: the liquid and the bottle) it "clips". One has to create a very small tiny gap between the 2 materials.

That's probably not the case here, but maybe the egg-shaped bubble could be evidence of this (or it was created intentional by Nelson)

@Nelson: please upload the picture of your bottle when you have rendered it once again! (cant wait)

guest84672

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 07:54:30 am »
@Jhiker:

[...] but keyshot has the unfortunate problem that if you have 2 transparent materials "touching" each other (in this case: the liquid and the bottle) it "clips". [...]


This is not a KeyShot problem, and has nothing to do with transparent material. When 2 surfaces are on top of each other you will always have a display problem. A small gap is always recommended.

Look for Jeff M's wine glass example. It shows how to properly break up the model, and what parameter values to set for each material.


Offline Robert V.

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 08:33:09 am »
I know it has nothing to do with transparent materials, but it's the situation in which this "problem" excels...

If other render-programs have the same problem, then I take back my words.

Offline Xidor

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 08:44:24 pm »
Hi everyone, thanks for chiming in. And thanks Thomas. I'll do a search for Jeff M's wine glass example. Hopefully I can find it!

I actually deliberately have the liquid going into the glass by about an eighth of a millimeter. But in this case, it sounds like for it to work best in Keyshot, I should have done it the opposite so there is a tiny air gap between the glass and the liquid.

And I will post my results.

Offline JeffM

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 03:07:43 am »
Ideally you should just have one surface for where the liquid and glass meet. This is what you'll find in my wine glass, and take a look at the IOR settings of the materials on the various surfaces.

The wine glass is included with KeyShot 2.1 and later.

There's also a beer glass post in the gallery thread that has some discussion about proper glass/liquid rendering.

Offline Xidor

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 10:04:09 pm »
Thanks Jeff!

I've read and re-read the wine glass posting and studied the bip file. That was very helpful to learn about the liquid/glass interface surface. Not what I expected!

So here's what I did based on the learnings:


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And I just watched an episode of Mad Men, so here's to Don Draper. By the way, the HDRI is the Luxion conference room.

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Thanks again for the help!

Offline Xidor

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 10:11:20 pm »
And here's an attempt at condensation, I need to get the scale better:

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Offline Robert V.

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 12:29:04 am »
This looks much better! well done!

guest84672

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Re: Beer bottle help
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 07:20:16 am »
Great - starting to look really good.