Author Topic: Make improvement is diamond material please  (Read 9982 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Frody

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Make improvement is diamond material please
« on: May 03, 2015, 05:32:39 am »
Coming soon KeyShot 6

Make improvement is diamond material  please.
Or create a new one.
I'm talking about the multicolored sparks.


It has long been following all versions KeyShot. In it, a most of improvements and it pleases.
But, unfortunately, the material of the diamond remains the same as seven years ago.
Unable to get the beautiful multi-colored iridescence.
Dispersion is not working properly because it is impossible to obtain pure colors of the light spectrum
Abbe number a little that does  solve


For this reason I do not use KeyShot rendering jewelry, where there are large diamonds.

Here for example render made in Bunkspeed.


I like it, but unfortunately it is a very long render

I beg you please do the new stuff diamond.


I want to use only KeyShot.
Thank you for understanding
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 06:39:46 am by Frody »

Offline Esben Oxholm

  • KeyShot Beta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1670
  • esbenoxholm.dk/keyshot-video-course
    • Freelance CG Artist
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 06:11:40 am »
Hi Frody.

Have you tried to adjust the settings in the default diamond material?
I got some colors out by turning the abbe number down to 6.


Offline Frody

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 06:37:07 am »
Hi Esben Oxholm!

I have long been familiar with KeyShot. More about the era HyperShot (2008)

Material Diamond is still the same. It migrated to the KeyShot and has not changed in that time.
This is the only downside KeyShot.

Using an abbe number not enough unfortunately.

It is necessary to refine or change the math of starting material.
This question is for developers and programmers.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 06:51:34 am by Frody »

Offline Ed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
    • Cascadia Design Studio
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 07:38:09 am »
I took one of my old ring models and hid everything but the large diamond, then experimented with the KeyShot Abbe Number going to extremes.  I set Ray Bounces to 50.

Generally to get a large amount of dispersion (fire) you need an HDR with multiple small light sources (just as jewelry store displays have multiple mini spotlights).  The indoor office or store HDRs are a good example.

Also, the HDR that gives a good result in the stone is not necessarily the one you want for the ring shank.  So you can  make two render passes, each with a different HDR, and combine in Photoshop via a Clown Pass.

The images below show some blurring of the colors.  That is because I blurred my HDR.  Sharp features in the HDR will give sharp facets in the render. Finally, you can always crank up the Saturation in Photoshop for just the diamond.

Also, the photos published by high-end jewelry stores tend to desaturate the diamonds to make them look defect-free.  Professional photography tutorials for jewelry also give that advice.  Not that dispersion is a defect, but it can come across as that in an advertisement. Personally, I tend to believe that the industry leaders know what sells a ring. So when it comes to dispersion, a little is better than too much.

We'll leave it up to the KeyShot developers to decide if they need to change the diamond material :)

Ed Ferguson

Diamond Abbe = 0.4 (top)
Diamond Abbe = 20 (middle)
Diamond Abbe = 50 (bottom)


Offline Frody

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 08:37:53 am »
Let my proposal at the discretion of the developers.
But I'd really like to KeyShot not inferior to leaders in the visualization of large diamonds.
And what would not you say Ed.. KeyShot is giving way :(

Compare yor or Esben Oxholm renderins with mine. Check my pictures above, it is done in another program.
Try to make a same diamond using KeyShot;)

If the material is brilliant and will remain the HyprShot that was seven years ago, I'm not upset.
 Since diamonds for a long time is visualized in other programs.
I use KeyShot only when necessary to render large colored stones.
And for fast rendering to show the progress of the client.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 08:45:09 am by Frody »

Offline Ed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
    • Cascadia Design Studio
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 08:57:38 am »

... "Try to make a same diamond using KeyShot;)"

Frody - I'm trying to helpful and not critical.  But I don't wish to make the same diamond in KeyShot because, in my opinion, those diamonds look like they are made of glass.

But, I do hope you get consideration and a response directly from KeyShot.

Ed Ferguson

Offline Frody

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 10:03:48 am »
Small stones can be made well in KeyShot.
But as for the large stones, it is better let it be as a "glass" but done in a oter program.

I expressed my opinion. I hope that the developers will hear me and KeyShot allow make beautiful diamonds with proper dispersion.

With you Ed, I'm not going to argue and persuade you in something ..

Pictures that you see below is the advertising posters.
it looks like a glass?
With HyperShot and KeyShot is not done at the moment

« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 04:22:37 am by Frody »

Offline Ed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
    • Cascadia Design Studio
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 10:49:14 am »
"... as for the large stones, it is better let it be as a "glass" .

No - Diamonds have higher refractive index than glass, about 2.4 compared to about 1.5 for glass.

Turn a real diamond upside down and place it on a piece of newspaper.  If you can read print through the stone, or even see distorted black smudges, then it isn't a diamond.  A diamond will bend the light so sharply that you can't see the print.

And various images of renders are not the standard to judge.  Un-touched photos are the standard.  Unless of course you want to use "artistic license" to deliver what the client wants.  In that case, use whatever works.

With that said, I'll step aside and let KeyShot respond to your request.

Ed Ferguson

Offline Frody

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 12:42:36 pm »
Here's another picture of the advertising poster.
Natural Stone. And it does not render.

I'm saddled all the best from yourself.
I argued the facts and images as should look like a real diamond (if there is a task to make colored sparks) black-white diamonds in the KS are good, they have no complaints.

And now let's wait for a response from the  KS team
;)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 03:54:11 am by Frody »

Offline DriesV

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2412
  • Product Specialist at Luxion
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2015, 03:53:33 am »
@Frody

Would it be possible to share your KeyShot renderings?
Can you share the model you used to render in Bunkspeed?

It would be great if you could help us match your results as close as possible. :)

I did some quick test rendering in KeyShot 6.
What do you think?

Dries

Offline TpwUK

  • KeyShot Beta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2910
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2015, 04:03:53 am »
Single pass renders Dries ?

Martin

Offline DriesV

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2412
  • Product Specialist at Luxion
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2015, 04:24:17 am »
Yes, single pass. Gem material.

Dries

Offline TpwUK

  • KeyShot Beta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2910
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 04:29:24 am »
Very nice, DriesV ... :)

Martin

Offline DriesV

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2412
  • Product Specialist at Luxion
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 05:12:47 am »
And here's just a diamond...

Personally, I don't really like this 'overdone' dispersion. A real natural diamond actually has very low dispersion (compared to other optical materials).
Many of the really, really high end jewelers hardly show any dispersion in their diamonds. E.g. http://en.piaget.com/jewellery/possession

Dries
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 05:19:07 am by DriesV »

Offline TpwUK

  • KeyShot Beta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2910
Re: Make improvement is diamond material please
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 05:19:29 am »
So is this a new material coming or just skill with what's already in the Library ? It's looking really nice whichever :)

Martin