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Share => HDRIs => Topic started by: rimi on June 27, 2010, 07:36:52 pm

Title: hdz file format
Post by: rimi on June 27, 2010, 07:36:52 pm
hi, ive never come across this file format of hdz, and theres a lack of info and support it seems, is there any way to convert these back to hdr? or a plugin to open in photoshop etc? or you could possibly provide them in hdr format?

thanks
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on June 28, 2010, 02:47:03 pm
Not right now. This is a proprietary encrypted format developed by Luxion, makers of KeyShot. It has been developed to protect the IP of the suppliers of these HDRIs. You may want to contact www.hdri-locations.com or www.hdrlightstudio.com directly.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: Imz on August 09, 2010, 03:28:46 pm
So does Keyshot only recognize .hdz environments? I tried to add some of HDR images to my environments folder without any luck.

Also, is it possible to create your own environments? I have a large jpeg panorama I'd like to use in one of my renderings; what are the steps to utilize it?

Cheers,

Imz
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on August 09, 2010, 03:34:32 pm
No KeyShot understands .hdr and .exr files. The .hdz format is a specific format that only KeyShot understands.

What are the problems with the HDRIs? You can always use "Load" in the environment tab.

You can create your own HDRIs - just google it. You will definitely need more than one image, though.

Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: Imz on August 09, 2010, 03:37:36 pm
Thanks- will try again.

On my Mac I just copied some hdri images into library/application support/keyshot/environments, restarted, and didn't see them, so I assumed it was a format issue.

Will dig deeper.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: jhiker on August 17, 2010, 07:06:07 am
What are the problems with the HDRIs? You can always use "Load" in the environment tab.



Not to be pedantic, but that's Edit -> Environment -> Load from the file menu - I was searching in vain for it on the Environment 'tab' - it's not there  ;)
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on August 17, 2010, 07:28:44 am
It is in the Options dialog.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on August 17, 2010, 07:29:34 am
Thanks- will try again.

On my Mac I just copied some hdri images into library/application support/keyshot/environments, restarted, and didn't see them, so I assumed it was a format issue.

Will dig deeper.

Right click onto the environment tab in the library and select "rescan library".

Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: waters on October 26, 2010, 01:12:46 pm
Still no answer as to how to bring in a 360 deg panorama... Thomas, any tips?
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: waters on October 28, 2010, 05:12:45 am
By dumb luck, not my preferred way of learning, I changed a JPEG to 32 bit in Photoshop and then saved as .hdr. When I load the .hdr file in KeyShot I see that the projection is spherical, so I will next try one of my rectilinear 360 panorama files generated in PTGui, assuming that .hdr projections in Key Shot are meant to be spherical, a match for 360 panoramas.
I would appreciate some feedback, as a $ 1,000.00 piece of software should be accompanied by more than
$ 5.00 worth of instructions!
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on October 29, 2010, 03:49:47 pm
You are not getting an hdri image from a jpeg by saving it as a .hdr. A jpeg is only 8 bit, and thus doesn't contain any lighting information. So in the end, your "hdri" is still a jpeg.

Not sure what instructions you are missing.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: Brian Townsend on November 19, 2010, 10:03:36 am
Hi Waters,

You may take a look at the the link below for more information on HDRI's for a clearer understanding of 8 bit vs. 32 bit images.  Notice the several exposures that were taken that covers the entire range of exposures for a scene. This ensures that all the detail in highlight and shadow is captured.  That is how KeyShot can determine the light sources in a scene and accurately cast shadows.   These exposures are then merged into a single 32 bit image with software such as PTGUI.  A single JPEG can produce a marginal result but nowhere near the level of quality of an HDRI.  The HDRI's provided on our downloads section are compiled from 84 different images, so you can imagine the difference in quality.  Hope this helps, if you have more specific questions on creating HDRIs just ask.  Thanks!

http://www.gregdowning.com/HDRI/stitched/

Brian
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: waters on November 20, 2010, 09:10:53 am
Brian:
 Good timing on your reply. I have been shooting panoramas for a few years, including ones done with TuFuse to get a better dynamic range. I picked up Christian Bloch's HDRI Handbook, which does a good job of filling in the missing pieces on the use of HDR sphericals in KeyShot. In his book he explains the use of HDR's in rendering. I may be missing this info in the manual. I am assuming that the relationship between HDR's and lighting is similar in Key Shot to the renderers he describes. If this is the case, this relationship is not mentioned in the manual, but it is very important. The manual proceeds from the assumption that users have a familiarity with rendering, so for the uninitiated it is difficult to gain all the information needed to get the most out of Key Shot. In fact, that what you refer to to help me better understand HDR's points out the need for this info in the manual.
 Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: jeffw on January 28, 2011, 10:25:20 am
For me not being able to edit the HDZ format makes them unusable and I will stay with HDR. Most environmental images have too much saturation for all the reflective metal material in our products. With HDR I can knock this down in Photoshop to a level that works for me. Perhaps there could be a way devised to adjust saturation and contrast within Keyshot. Then Keyshot could have propriety of the images, but users could tweak them as well.

 
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: Speedster on January 28, 2011, 02:56:31 pm
I sure like the idea of adjusting saturation and contrast directly in KS, sort of like we can do now with backplates.  In fact, I'd love to see more adjustment range for backplates.  I don't know if the hdz format can be tweaked in HDR LightStudio- I'll try it soon as I have some time.  I can tweak hdr's, as I've done so to great effect, like bringing soft fill light into deep shadows, etc.
Bill G
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on January 30, 2011, 01:58:01 pm
You can control the gamma and brightness of the HDRI, as well as the gamma and brightness of the entire image. That gives a lot of control.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: MealeaYing on June 17, 2016, 11:26:56 am
Ok!
I learned a lot here, I  think...

Let me make sure I understand this:

1) HDR is just high dynamic range, this can be saved in any format, but usually Jpeg (8 bits per R, G, and B channels) by cameras, phones and so on.

2)HDRI has an extra I for whatever reason, contains 32 bits of information, giving not only color information, but also lighting. Most cameras and phones don't do this, right?

3) Doing a panoramic image with your camera or phone, even with HDR on, will result in a normal HDR image (albeit rather cool) thats NOT useful in KeyShot as it hasn't got lighting information, and does not map well onto (Into?) a sphere.

So, this brings me to a simple question:
Can a phone or camera that supports HDR, supports doing panoramic photos, and has good resolution actually make a proper (KeyShot worthy) HDRI image?
I have, for example, a Droid Turbo 2 with a nice 21 megapixel camera in it, it does HDR, it does panoramas and it does stills and 4k ultra HD, can I use this thing somehow to make these images or am I hosed?
If I am hosed, what camera do I need?
And, I hate asking this, but, how much is it?

Thanks for this thread you guys, I think I understand this better...

Cheers!
Mealea






Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: guest84672 on June 17, 2016, 02:38:56 pm
You can use those panoramic photos. In order to turn this into an HDRI, you will need to open the HDRI editor (KeyShot Pro) and add pins to it. Otherwise the lighting will be just flat.

In order to create true HDRIs you will need a camera that allows you shoot images at different exposure that need to be clamped into a single image. There are various tool out there that allow you to do this. Creating spherical HDRIs is another step up where you will need additional hard- and software.
Title: Re: hdz file format
Post by: Niko Planke on June 24, 2016, 06:29:56 am
To clarify a few things.

HDR stands for High Dynamic Range and is the basically same as an HDRI (High dynamic range Image).
These are ideally save with as much accuracy as possible, so any 32 bit image format. (Tiff, exr,hdz, hdr or  "a specialized HDR-JPEG")
By  saving the files as a standard jpeg you will usually cut the high range.
This results in bright light sources being darker  than they should be.
This can not be reversed, so  you can not make a normal image to an hdri.

To capture the additional information, multiple images with different exposures are taken.
This can be done by any camera that with a accurate enough exposure control.
You should be able to find mobile apps that can take HDR images.
But it is worth noting that any movement in between the shots will spoil the outcome.

The challenge is usually not the hdr image itself, but the spherical representation with hdr information.
So to use panoramas  from mobile devices you would need to overlay multiple panorama images with different exposure,  and make sure that the complete sphere is captured and not only a horizontal band(like panoramas usually are). And all of that while nothing has moved between the shots.

As for the hdr setting, it simply takes the the images with different exposures for you , so they should be valid hdris if saved in the right format.
If you manage stitch multiple of those hdris into on spherical hdri, it should be god to go inside KeyShot.

So taking HDRIs with you mobile device is a quite ambitious task and it may be cheaper after all to buy the needed gear.

Usually HDRIs are made using  a fisheye lense and a specialized camera stand.   You should be able to find multiple Guides to do so online.

But the main Method is to take images in each direction, each with multiple exposures.  an those can then be stitched into a spherical HDRI.
That can be done with most cameras, but the image quality  and the time required will of cause depend on the gear used.
You should also be able to find sets that are able to directly take  360 degree HDR images with one button press by searching for "360 hdri camera" in your favorite search engine.

If you only have a jpg panorama, it can not directly be used since you may be missing part of the image(top and bottom) and the High dynamic range information.
You can compensate for the missing HDR  information by adding Pins in the Bright areas as described  above.
For instance, adding a bright circular Pin where the sun is. But you will have either a stretched images  or dark areas at the top and bottom of the image.